Kundalini conversation with J
rishnamurti source I
He is the only source I trust. He, like myself; believes in the whole of you being
involved. This is the only way I work with you. It's by this approach that my clients have immediate experiences
with the whole of them.
Or you can listen to him in this you tube video link.
K: Sir, first of all, if you really want to discuss, have a dialogue
about Kundalini, would you forget everything you have heard about it? Would you? We are entering into a subject which is very serious. Are you willing to forget
everything you have heard about it, what your gurus have told you about it, or your attempts to awaken
it? Can you start with a
completely empty state? Then you have to enquire, really not
knowing anything about Kundalini.
You know what is happening now in America, in Europe. Kundalini centres have been
opened by people who say they have had the experience of the awakening of Kundalini.
Scientists are interested in it today. They feel that by doing certain forms of
exercise, breathing, they will awaken the Kundalini. It has all become a moneymaking concern, and it is being given
to people who are terribly mischievous.
Q: We just want to know whether there is an energy that can wipe out
K: So long as self-centred activity exists, you cannot touch it. That is why I
object to any discussion on Kundalini or whatever that energy is, because we have not done the spade work. We don't
lead a life of correctness and we want to add something new to it and so carry on our mischief.
VA: Even after awakening Kundalini, self-centred activity continues.
K: I question whether the Kundalini is awakened. I don't know what you mean by it.
VA: Sir, we really want to understand this, because it is an actuality sometimes.
P: Do you know of an energy when self-centred activity ends? We assume that this
is the source of this endless energy. It may not be.
K: Are you saying the ending of this movement from the centre to the circumference
and from the circumference to the centre, the end of that...
P: Momentary ending of it...
K: No, the ending of it, the complete ending of it - is the release of that energy
which is limitless?
P: I don't say that.
K: I am saying that.
P: Which is a very different thing to my saying it.
K: Can we put Kundalini energy in its right place? A number of people have the experience of what they call Kundalini, which I question. I
question whether it is an actual reality or some kind of physiological activity which is then attributed to
Kundalini. You live an immoral life in the sense of a life of vanity, sex, etc. and then you say that your
Kundalini is awakened. But your daily life, which is a self-centred life, continues.
P: Sir, if we are going to examine it, let us see how it operates in one. The
awakening of Kundalini is linked to certain psychic centres located at certain physical parts of the body. That is
what is said. The first question I would like to ask is whether that is so? Has the release of this energy, which
has no end, anything to do with the psychic centres in the physical parts of the body?
A: Before we go into that, sir, is it not essential to enquire whether the person
who acquires that energy is incapable of doing harm.
K: No, sir. Do be careful. How can we say somebody is incapable of doing harm?
They say many Indian gurus have done tremendous harm misleading people. A: That is what I say, sir. I feel that
unless the person's heart is cleansed of hate, and his thirst to do harm is completely transmuted, unless that has
happened, then this energy can do nothing but more mischief.
K: what Pupulji is asking about is the standard acceptance of the power of this
energy going through various centres and the releasing of energy and so on.
A: I say, sir, that before we ask that question, there is in the Indian tradition
a word which I think is very valuable. That word is `adhikar'. Adhikar means that the person must cleanse himself
sufficiently before he can pose this question to himself. It is a question of cleansing.
K: Are you saying that unless there is a stoppage of this movement from the centre
to the circumference and from the circumference to the centre, that Pupulji's question is not valid?
A: I think so. I will use another word, the Buddhist word is `sheela'. It is
really the same. The word `adhikar' used by the Hindus and the word `sheela' used by the Buddhist really mean the
P: I take it that when one asks the question, there is a depth of self-knowing
with which one asks. It is not possible to investigate the self which also releases energy, if one's life has not
gone through a degree of inner balance, otherwise what K says has no meaning. When one listens to Krishnaji, one
receives at the depth to which one has exposed oneself, and therefore I think it is right to ask the question. Why
is this question more dangerous than any other question? Why is it more dangerous than inquiring into what is
thought, what is meditation, what is this, what is that? To the mind which will comprehend, it will comprehend this
and that. To the mind which will not comprehend, it will comprehend neither. To the mind which wants to misuse, it
will misuse anything.
K: Unless your life, your daily life is a completely non self-centred way of
living, the other cannot possibly come in.
VA: There is arising of energy - there is delight at first, then fear.
S: We would like to know why that energy creates fear.
VA: Fear comes later. One experiences death and everything vanishes. You are alive
again and you are surprised that you are alive again. You find the world again, and your thoughts, and your
possessions and desires and the whole world slowly come back.
K: Would you call that, sir, the awakening of Kundalini?
VA: I don't know, sir.
K: But why do you label it as the awakening of Kundalini?
VA: For a few days after that, for a period of a month, the whole life changes.
Sex vanishes, desires vanish.
K: Yes, sir, I understand. But you do come back to it again.
VA: One comes back to it because one doesn't understand.
K: That is what I am saying, sir. When there is a coming back to something, I
question whether you have had that energy.
P: Why has this question awakened so many ripples? Most people go through a great
deal of psychic experiences in the process of self-knowing. One also understands, at least one has understood
because one has listened to Krishnaji, that all psychic experiences when they arise, have to be put
K: Is that understood? Psychic experience must be totally put aside.
A: We put them aside, not only give no importance to them.
VA: Some new passages do get opened in the body, and the energy keeps rising in
those passages whenever it is required.
K: Sir, why do you call it something extraordinary? Why do we attribute something
extraordinary to this? I am just suggesting, it may be that you have become very sensitive. That is all. Very
acutely sensitive. VA: I have more energy.
K: Sensitivity has more energy. But why do you
call it extraordinary, Kundalini this, that or the other?
P: The real problem is to what extent is your life totally changed. I mean the
only meaning of awakening is if there is a totally new way of looking, a new way of living, a new way of
Q: Sir, I want to ask a question. Taking for granted that one is leading a
holistic life, is there something like Kundalini?
K: Sir, are you living a holistic life?
K: Therefore, don't ask that question.
P: I am asking from a totally different point. As it is understood, Kundalini is
the wakening of certain psychic energies which exist at certain physical points in the human body, and that it is
possible to awaken the psychic energies through various practices which then, as they go through these various
psychophysical states and centres, transmute consciousness, and when they finally break through, they pierce
through self-centred activity. This must be the basic meaning of the whole thing.
Apa: Mescaline can do it; you can do it.
P: I am just asking Krishnaji whether there is an energy which, on awakening, not
being awakened, but on awakening completely wipes out the centre.
K: I would put it the other way. Unless the self-centred movement stops, the other can't
A: I say that the whole Hatha yoga tradition has engendered a belief that by
manipulating these centres, you can do things to yourself. The whole idea is based on a wrong belief.
P: Wipe out everything.
A: We should wipe it out.
P: As it does not seem possible to proceed with this discussion, may I put another
question? What is the nature of the field which needs to be prepared, to be able to receive that which is
K: Are you cultivating the soil of the brain, of the mind, in order to receive
P: I understand your question. But I can neither say yes nor no to it.
K: Then, why call it energy and bring the word `soil'? Prepare, work at
it. We live a life of
contradiction, conflict, misery. I want to find out if it can end sorrow, the whole of human sorrow and enquire into the nature of compassion.
S: Is there any other way of living in which compassion is also part of
cultivating the self? Why are you asking this question, why do you want to cultivate the soil?
K: I say as long as you have motive to cultivate that soil in order to receive that energy, you will
never receive it.
S: What is the motive, sir? It is the whole prison. To see the whole prison and
ask whether there is any other way out of this, is it a motive? Then, one gets caught in a circle, in a
K: No, you haven't listened. I live a life of torture, misery,
confusion. That is my basic feeling and can that end?
There is no motive.
S: Here there is no motive. But you are also asking a further question.
K: No. I don't have further questions, only that first question. Can that whole
Only then can I answer the other questions, which have tremendous
P: What is the nature of the soil of the human mind which has to be cultivated to
receive the other? You tell me that is also a wrong question. You say I am in conflict, I am suffering and I see
that a life of conflict and suffering has no end.
K: That is all. If it cannot end, then the other enquiry and investigation,
and the wanting to awaken
the other in order to wipe this out is a wrong process.
This is a transcript of J Krishnamurti Kundalini talk.